Hello, everyone. I want to say thank you so much for joining us on This Needs To Be Said today. We’re being joined today by Bob Doig who is a bankruptcy attorney out of Colorado. We’re going to talk about his latest book, Bankruptcy in Colorado, Secrets They Don’t Want You To Know. I want to welcome attorney Doig to This Needs To Be Said. Welcome. How are you?

I’m fine. Thank you, Katherine. I appreciate the opportunity to talk about the book.

Awesome. Well, let’s jump right into it. Bankruptcy, I think some people feel like it’s a bad word. I’m getting the hint that you’re going to tell us that it’s not, especially by the title of your book. Tell us about this book and some of the secrets. Don’t give them all away. People will have to get that book from you. But tell us some of the secrets.

Fair enough. Thank you, Katherine. We were all brought up I think to believe that filling bankruptcy is about the worst thing you could ever do. I know that’s how I was brought up and the vast majority of people who I meet with who are really struggling financially, they just have a horrible feeling. They’re not happy when they come in. They’re not happy to be making an appointment with a bankruptcy lawyer. I completely understand. But what they should realize is that the whole purpose of the bankruptcy laws is to give people an opportunity for a fresh start.

The top three reasons that people file bankruptcy are they’ve lost the job or they’ve become divorced and now you have two people supporting two households rather than two people supporting one household. It’s very difficult to make ends meet in that situation. Or they have overwhelming medical bills. Those are the top three. Boy, they have to account for well over 90% of the bankruptcies that are filed.

What are some of the secrets? I’ll tell you what. It’s not unusual for people to believe that if they file bankruptcy, they’re going to lose their car or they’re going to lose their house. Frankly, that’s not just true. The way the bankruptcy law is set up is that people are allowed to keep certain items and it’s called the exempt property that they have. In other words, it’s exempted from being taken by the bankruptcy trustee or by your creditors and that’s what helps you get a fresh start.

In the vast, vast majority of cases, people can keep their vehicle. Of course, if they have a loan on the vehicle, they’re going to have to keep making the payments. They can keep their house as long as … assuming they have a mortgage on it, as long as they continue to pay their mortgage. Those are like two of the biggest things, worries that people have when they come and meet with me. I try to put them at ease, let them know that’s nothing to be concerned about.

You put together a book of secret to help people be more comfortable with coming to sit with you?

Well, there’s a lot of misinformation about bankruptcy that’s out there. The book is not really so much … the purpose behind the book is not so much to make people feel comfortable coming in and meeting with me but really to just whether they come and see me, whether they do nothing, whether they call someone else, it’s really to give them the real, what the real deal is if people file bankruptcy. Of course, I’m happy to have them come and see me. That is how I make my living. But the purpose behind the book is really to tell people what the facts are, what the truth is regarding bankruptcy laws and how it will affect them.

Making sure they have accurate information.

Absolutely right.

All right. Research has said that 90% of all bankruptcies that are filed because of medical bills, divorce or job loss. Do you find that to be accurate in your experience?

Absolutely, without a doubt. Sometimes I’ve had clients that had all three.

Wow.

Boy, I know. Really.

Now, the people, there are some things that I wonder about, once you filed bankruptcy, is that a one and done kind of thing or I mean of course we have our presidential nominee who has filed several times but maybe that’s special to him. But for the regular people, is filing bankruptcy a one and done kind of thing?

Well, first of all, I think you’re talking about Mr. Trump and I don’t think he’s filed a personal bankruptcy. I think he has had his companies to file bankruptcy and that’s a distinction that I think should be made. I think I read somewhere where six different his companies have filed bankruptcy. But as far as people go, the rules are, well, basically for people who … let me back up a little bit, people will file either under chapter 7 or chapter 13 of the bankruptcy code.

A chapter 7 is the more common chapter, at least here in Colorado for people to file on their end. With a chapter 7, once you filed a chapter 7 case and received the discharge of your debts, in other words you don’t owe them anymore, that’s an order that’s entered from the court. Then if you want to file another chapter 7 sometime down the road, you have to wait at least 8 years from the day that you filed the previous chapter 7.

The rules are different with chapter 13 and with chapter 13, it’s a much more involved process. You make payments to a chapter 13 trustee for at least three years, no more than five years. The time that’s required chapter 13s is less than between chapter 7s. But for the most common cases, at here in Colorado, it’s an 8-year … the people have to wait 8 years between times that they filed.

You brought up something that I didn’t even think of because … my question, you could tell I didn’t know so there’s difference between business bankruptcy and personal bankruptcy. Expound a little bit more on that because, as we listen to the debates and Trump has filed bankruptcy so many times, a person, a regular consumer doesn’t distinguish between business and personal bankruptcy. Could you talk a little bit more about the difference between business and personal bankruptcy.

Sure. If a person starts a business, they can start it as a sole proprietor so they own it and they’re just doing business as and it’s not a separate legal entity. Of course, Mr. Trump hasn’t done that because he has a lot of lawyers advising him that in his case, it wouldn’t be a wise decision. His businesses were all set up corporations. They’re not him. They are a corporation that he owns stock in and other stockholders may own. The corporations are what has filed bankruptcy.

I’ll tell you, Katherine. I haven’t done an in-depth analysis of Donald, the bankruptcy of Donald Trump’s companies because it’s not something that I’m interested in, to be frank with you. But I would be amazed if it was other than that, that they’re separate entities that are unable to make their numbers to pay their bills. He would say that bankruptcy laws are there for a purpose and he’s used that for those purposes. Whether that’s right or wrong, I don’t know.

I frankly don’t do a lot of bankruptcies for companies. The vast, vast, vast majority of my clients are people who have through …

Regular everyday people.

Exactly right, who’ve come up on hard times, right.

Absolutely. Bankruptcy is not a bad word. Let me reiterate that. Is there anything in the new bankruptcy laws or in the bankruptcy laws, period, because the regular consumer may or may not know if there’s any changes. Are there any rules in the bankruptcy laws that would hinder from bankruptcy? Could they lose their right to file bankruptcy is the question?

Could they lose their right to file bankruptcy?

Correct.

Well, no. The law was changed in 2005. It went into effect in October of 2005. It’s still referred to as the new bankruptcy law which I think is kind of humorous. But back then, the idea the congress had was that too many people were filing chapter 7 bankruptcies and with the chapter 7 bankruptcy, it’s a liquidation. All the debts get discharged. The whole thing takes typically less than five months. The congress decided that in order for a person to file a chapter 7 bankruptcy, either is their household income had to be less than the median income for a household of their size in the state where they live or they have to pass a means test.

The means test, it’s a really complicated formula which many times people can pass it though. If they do pass the means test, then they are also allowed to file a chapter 7. If they don’t pass the means test, then the chapter 13 would generally be their option. Of course, there are exceptions, Katherine, to every rule. The bankruptcy laws frankly are really complicated. There could be a situation where a person does not qualify for a chapter 7 because their income was too high and they don’t qualify for a chapter 13 because their debts are too high.

In that case, it’s tough for them because then their only option would be a chapter 11. That can be a very expensive and a long drawn out process. I’ll tell you what, it only applies to a .0001% of the population. It’s really not something for the vast, vast, vast majority of people to be concerned about. For the most part, people can file a chapter 7. The vast majority of people in Colorado who I see who qualify for a chapter 7 and sometimes they don’t and then I’ll let them know, “Your other option is a chapter 13.” I’ll explain what’s entailed by that, what they’ll have to do with chapter 13 and we take it from there.

I have a couple more questions for you before we wrap up our time here. I want to know what got you into bankruptcy law. What’s the story behind that?

That’s a good one. I’ll tell you what. I’ve been a lawyer, I was first licensed in Illinois in 1981. I moved to Colorado in late 1996. I became licensed as a Colorado attorney in 1997. It was kind of a bumpy start for me. I had done some bankruptcy work back Illinois in the ’80s but I hadn’t really focused on it. I was doing other things. At any rate, in the early 2000’s, I started selling real estate. I was having a lot of fun doing that. It was great.

Then as we all may remember in 2007 to 2008, the real estate market really started to tank. 2008 the economy tanked, frankly in the fall of 2008. I have bills to pay. I have a mortgage. I have a wife. I have kids. I had to do something. I went back to practicing law. It occurred to me that other people might be in the same situation as me. I put a couple of Craigslist ads out to offer people bankruptcy services. I built a website. I then built another website.

Here’s what I found out. I was fortunate. I had a few people call me for bankruptcy help. I filed their cases. I really discovered that oh my gosh, I can really help people with this. They’re so grateful. They come in and see me and they feel awful. I understand that. I totally get that. But when they leave, it’s like a huge burden that’s been lifted from their shoulders. It dawned on me, “Well, Bob. You’ve been practicing law for more than 30 years.” At that time, it was 27 years, something like that that I’ve been licensed. I’ve finally found the area of law that I really loved.

That’s what I’ve been doing essentially exclusively since late 2008. I don’t know, did that answer your question? I tend to rumble sometimes, Katherine. I’m sorry.

Well, I’m listening. It sounds like because of your background, you got into real estate, but then you have something to fall back on and you saw an opportunity. It was out of a need that you came into doing bankruptcy. Am I understanding the story right?

That’s exactly right.

You couldn’t have told me the story just like I summed it up for you because I would have been like, “Give me the details, Bob.” But you did give me the details so what I got from it is that there was an opportunity. You took advantage of it in a good way that was able to take care of you and your family which a lot of things are birthed out of a need. That is a very interesting story. Every time I hear somebody’s how did this come about story, it’s really interesting to me. No, you didn’t rumble on. I followed you very well.

Great. Thank you.

My last question for you, I know you’ve written this book … actually, I might have two more questions because I want you to tell people how to get in touch with you but, Bob, last interview question for you, even though you’ve written this book to make sure people have good information out about bankruptcy as it pertains to Colorado, why should people choose Doig Attorney Law Firm over any other one?

Well, Katherine. We take a different approach toward helping people. There are plenty of lawyers who can file a bankruptcy petition and help people get their debts discharged, we’re much more interested in helping them get to where they want to go. With my clients, when they hire me, well, we’re going to really do our absolute best to do the best that we can for them but when the case is over and their debts are discharged, I’m going to give them the opportunity to enroll in a class that will help them restore their credit. We just don’t leave them hanging, all of a sudden they don’t have any debts, and they get back into maybe some old habits that they shouldn’t get into using credit cards.

I’m going to offer them a class that if they follow what’s taught, in one to two years, they’re going to have credit score of 720 or higher. In addition, many of my clients here in Colorado, they’re with Dave Ramsey. I don’t know if you’re heard of him but he’s a …

I have.

He’s a nationally known speaker on helping people deal with issues and another thing that I do offer my clients is entry into Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University online and that’s at no charge to my clients. Those two things are really … I’m not aware of anyone else in Colorado who offers those two things. Plus we’re nice people.

Nice is always good.

Easy to talk to. I like to say that my office here is a judgment free zone. That’s absolutely true.

Attorney Doig, please let people know how they can get in touch with you outside of This Needs to be Said Show.

Sure thing, Katherine. If anybody would like to give us a call to set up a time to get together and discuss their situations, I’d be happy to do that. Or if they would just like a copy of the book, we’d be happy to put one in the mail to the. The best telephone number to reach of that is 719-428-3339. Again, 719-428-3339. Just give us a call and we’ll be happy to send a book to them and if they would like to get together with us, we’ll be happy to see them and discuss their situation with them, explore all their options and answer any questions they might have. Our website is at: http://www.doiglawgroup.com

Awesome. Thank you. Until next time. Have a wonderful day.

Thank you, Katherine. You too. Bye-bye.

Thank you.